MADELEINE HUNT
CORPORATE LAWYER
Madeleine Hunt is a senior corporate lawyer working in Sydney.
The powerhouse has expertise in capital raising and all things
startup law, and balancing it all with a happening social life.
How does she do it? Career tracked from the start, she shares what
she loves about working in law, managing stress and self-doubt,
the challenges that come from long-term study and the pressures
of working in an industry renowned for its intensity.
Hello hello! Tell us all, did you always want to be a lawyer?
Haha! People just don’t like lawyers! Bad rap overall.
A lot of people had said I’d be a good lawyer because I was a strong-willed teenager. I’m happy with my career choice but I don’t know where it came from, it’s not something I was brought up around. I wanted to do something that was challenging and intellectually stimulating. I think growing up, mum did a good job of convincing me that I was smart and capable. However, I was, in my whole family – parents, grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles – the first to go to university. So while I was always convinced I had the ability to do well there was always that bit of like ‘oh….is everyone else just that bit smarter than me?’
How did you land on studying law?
I did a double degree in media and law, so I justified the law by doing it alongside arts. I thought that I wanted to do investigative journalism or politics, so a law degree would be really helpful. I volunteered at Arts Law, thinking arts was my thing and that it was the cool way to do law. You can say to someone, ‘yeah I’m a lawyer… but I’m an ~arts lawyer~’
But I realised I didn’t need to justify going into corporate law, because it’s not that dry, soul-sucking environment people perceive it to be. So that’s been a nice surprise, finding a niche in an area that is very traditional. I don’t feel I am what I pictured a lawyer to be.
At what point did you move away from the arts part?
At uni I realised I found law way more interesting than media. If I got two assignments at the same time, I would put everything into the law subject. I obviously liked it more. I wasn’t as motivated by my own creativity, I was motivated more by working hard.
In law there is such little creativity,
but a real opportunity to work hard.
Tell us about the transition from uni to finding a job?
Finding a job was horrid. I finished my degree 8th in my cohort, sent out grad applications to all these big firms… and just nothing. Absolutely nothing. I sent off seven applications for clerkships and didn’t even get an interview.
I went back and reread my applications and realised my heart just totally wasn’t in it. Everyone could see that I just wasn’t interested, even if I had the marks. That was a fairly big wake up call.
My first grad job was in government doing policy work, which was fine, I just needed a job. In that position I realised that I’m just good at working. I didn’t actually like the work because it was boring – it wasn’t in an area that really interested me – but I was performing highly in a basic role and getting a lot of praise and appreciation, so I thought… maybe this is my future!
That’s such an honest reflection, where did you move from there?
Thank god I had an eye out and saw the job at LegalVision. Straight away I knew that it was so much more aligned with what I wanted to do.
I wanted to work with people, somewhere I could speak with my clients every day and be a part of their business.
Then there was an opening in the corporate team at LegalVision, I started taking on corporate clients and became a startup lawyer.
I guess it was a big change to go from wanting to do intellectual property to talking to people about their shares, but now I really like talking to people about their shares!
Startups genuinely excite me and drafting contracts
is really not as boring as people make it out to be.
Though sometimes I do wonder whether it’s back to that thing of… is it just because I’m performing well?
Did you find your motivation wavered at all during your five year degree?
Yeah. The last year and a half was REALLY tough. I started to get a lot of assignment anxiety. I knew I could do it and do a really good job, but just couldn’t start. I’d feel absolutely hopeless and have these breakdowns. But then I’d get into it and realise it was fine.
My relationship was also becoming more serious, and I was finding myself quite reliant on him because he was doing the same degree. If I struggled with something he could help me. Looking back I think it was just to kind of... feel that support from him. Which is weird. It was kind of me saying ‘oh, I can’t do this, you have to tell me I can’. Whereas really... I totally could have just done it myself! It took going into the workforce to realise I’m on my own.
How did you manage that anx at the time?
I just started doing assignments as soon as I got them – not doubting myself and just pumping it out.
Pressure! What kind of pressures do you think are unique to law?
The pressure to get a job in a top-tier law firm. Clerkships are really good – you do a summer of full-time work and then in your final year of uni you work 2-3 days a week, meaning you can secure a good job in a good firm. But, so few people get them, and yet there is still
a lot of pressure to work in a top-tier firm, which I’ve felt. Like, grappling with ‘can you be valued and sought after, not having that experience?’ – the industry is still struggling with that mentality.
Interestingly enough, after almost five incredible years working at a very non-traditional startup law firm,
I’m now working at a top-tier firm. They valued my experience, even if it wasn’t at a big firm. I was sought after for the different perspective I could bring.
So maybe the industry is getting better.
Law is also very elitist. Most people have highly educated parents and family members – many of whom are lawyers. They have these expectations around what law is. That could also be why I initially shied away from the commercial and corporate side of law, because
I didn’t have that background.
How do you switch off and manage stress?
To be honest it’s making sure I get seven hours of sleep and a lot of people time.
I also love listening to music. De-stress and WFH has got to be Nils Frahm but for a more upbeat, dance-around-the-house-when-it’s-all-going-to-shit vibe… it has to be Ball Park Music.
I bring work home more than I should, probably because I have someone at home who knows what I’m talking about. I can tell him about a particular thing that’s stressful and he’ll understand. But, I’ve made some very practical decisions to try and curb that –
I try not to have my work phone on me all the time and only do work after hours that is genuinely urgent.
My days are intense. For the hours I’m at work, I am working so hard. So when I come home, I can’t do anything more and I feel proud of myself. I’ve worked with wonderful and understanding managers and I’ve always felt there’s not the expectation that I need to always be online but unfortunately law firm culture can be the opposite.
Some lawyers work at all hours, so clients get used
to being able to contact you at any time and receive
immediate responses. This becomes the expectation
and the cycle continues. The industry really needs
to work on this.
Have there been any low points?
I’ve had a few breakdown cry moments in the bathroom... My worst day was because of pressure I put on myself. I felt like I had just totally fucked it. It was the first matter that I’d taken carriage of on my own. I had to send out 12 documents to 12 different people, and
I did it wrong. The client was furious and my boss wasn’t around.
My boss was lovely about it, very supportive. That’s what has kept my spirits high – support. Now if I make a mistake I get a bit of PTSD thinking back to that moment. No one can make you feel worse than you are making yourself feel.
What about high points?
My best days at work are those where I’m able to
demonstrate my knowledge. I love being able to help
people to learn what I’ve learned. Those are the days
I feel really good. It justifies all that effort you put in.
This is why I do it.
Looking forward, do you have any fears surrounding working in law?
I have this fear that maybe I’m just very good up to a level. Like you kind of cap at your ability, and that’s the end. Sometimes when I just can’t wrap my head around something, knowing that I’m really good at something else doesn’t help me. I start to worry that, because I’ve never had to push myself beyond this level of expertise, maybe this is all I can do.
Oh imposter syndrome, sweet sweet imposter syndrome!
Has anything stood out as being gendered in law?
It’s hard to know whether it’s gender determined or personality determined, but in my experience female managers have been more hands-on, more critical and potentially more invested in my development and growth than male managers.
I think that women are potentially more critical of women, I’ve heard about it a lot in law – people having really difficult-to-work-with female partners. I think it probably comes with them having had it so tough too – they had to really prove themselves.
I’ve been very lucky with who I’ve worked with.
My female bosses have been super hands-on,
perfectionist and constantly picking up flaws and
improvement opportunities in my work. Whereas some male managers I’ve worked with have been very much
bigger-picture… like ‘this is right, this is fine’.
I don’t think that does you any favours.
Do you have advice for prospective lawyers?
You should care. You shouldn’t be ‘above’ any particular task. You’re allowed to whinge about it to your nearest and dearest after you’ve done it... but you’ve just got to do it.
I think it often comes down to having had a part-time job at uni. When someone’s like ‘can you help me out with this quote?’, I’m like ‘fucking YES!’. Because I remember working at a pharmacy processing people’s bowel sample kits. Like if you’re coming straight from taking people’s bowel sample kits... admin is amazing.
HAHAHA! Would you do it all again?
I think so. I can’t think of something that I would want to be doing more. Obviously, if there was something I could be doing that was a bit less intense… that would be nice too. But I wouldn’t like it as much. The intensity is what motivates me.
